Main Mission Statement - Discuss the future of Puppy Linux

[wolf]

here's what's come up in the past and i am in favor of

-a focus on ubuntu

-as easy as possible for the win crowd

-moving in a direction that interests folks, iow, tuning them in,
rather than ~ it's like this, take it or leave it, iow, turning folks off

-dealing with the root issue that linux folks know about

-a name change, or variant

-a #1 distro
=======================
Main Mission Statement
=======================

[puppyite]

(07-29-2011 10:12 PM)wolf Wrote:  here's what's come up in the past and i am in favor of:

If you know what you want concerning these issues then please create a yes or no poll for each of the items you mention in Polls Forum.

Thank you.

[puppyite]

I want users to have a “seat at the table” in deciding the Future of Puppy Linux. AFAICT at this point in time the best users can do is make entreaties about their desires concerning Puppy Linux which developers may or may not heed or even hear.

My hope is that as time goes by and more polls are created in Polls Forum developers will visit and at least have an easier way to see what people want. Anyway that’s my plan.

[wolf]

i'm focusing on the "easy as possible" part and win noobs

pup 5.2.5

getting up to speed on ubuntu stuff

getting basics up on the forums,

i'm not aware of anything out there that is easier to start out with for linux noobs,

after that needs work though,

wouldn't be a stretch at all to say something along the lines of ~ easiest starter distro for linux noobs

and to put a great emphasis on that part, or that it is well known to excel in that area

[wolf]

here's an example of where things are at

Quote:NinerSevenTango
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 181

I've done a lot of puppy installs over the years, but work keeps me from keeping up as I would like.

I'd like to do a full install of Lupu 525 on a brand new machine that has Windows 7 pre-installed. Actually, two of them. (Tried it once on one of them and failed, never had time to go back and fix it. Had to do the windows repair thing to get it to boot windows again.)

I still cannot find a step-by-step full install instruction anywhere. There are pages, but they seem to apply to older grub, frugal installs, XP, etc.

Does anyone have a link, or would someone care to have a stab at it?

I did one before with Vista, EasyBDC, and grub4dos, I think. It was a little complicated and I can't remember all the details. Is that still the path to follow?

Thanks,

--97T--

[wolf]

here's the deal
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=00417

Quote:The way ahead for Puppy is for individuals (or very small group) to "take the bull by the horns", get stuck in and do something. Then present the result.

Posted on 15 Oct 2008, 17:37 - Category: Retirement

[wolf]

what we could do is sort out a mission statement, work with the latest release, lucid 5.2.5, tweak it in accordance with the mission statement, and release it as a community variant from the new forums

perhaps -> as easy as possible, windows and noob friendly (including the forums)
easy to upgrade , keep it simple or the opposite

MS from the new moderated forums

Quote:Personal, friendly, noncombative communication

[masinick]

One thing that has become very clear to me over the years is that there is simply no one single "One size fits all" kind of system that will satisfy everyone. We know that Windows as both an operating system and as a user platform is pervasive and it has a very large user base, but even within that, it doesn't make everyone happy. Microsoft tries very hard to make as many variations as possible. In so doing, they please some and infuriate others.

In our Puppy community, I think we can observe the same thing. We have many different variations, and each of them please some people and infuriate others.

Therefore, to me, the most helpful approach is to do something very much along the lines of where we have been heading. Instead of making one huge, big monster, with a few variations to it, as Microsoft has done, I like the approach of having many variations, some of which are complete, ready to go, others of which are very special purpose, all of which are simple so that those who don't know how to "mess with things" don't have to do so - and yet, those who DO can accomplish whatever they set out to do.

I think we've done a very good job of setting up that kind of a framework, and what Barry has envisioned with his underlying plumbing has been perfect for those purposes.

The challenge continues to be to allow much diversity without creating wars over that diversity. You know, I was just thinking about different people from different cultures and different races earlier this morning during a time of reflection and meditation. Personally, I enjoy the great diversity of races, colors, nationalities, professions, and so forth. When we embrace our differences and enjoy them, rather than trying to get others to be just like us, I believe it creates beauty and enjoyment. Now, as I thought about it, yes, I generally choose to live with and be among people who have primarily similar interests and values, yet at the same time, I also enjoy going out from time to time to experience those who have completely different interests and values. I do not want to be like them necessarily, but I do want to enjoy them. I don't want them to stop what they are doing, unless I clearly see something that is harmful to themselves or others, in which case I might mention my concern to them, but it is STILL up to THEM to make their own choices - NOT me.

I think in this community, we ought to strive to have some kind of balance that has similarities to those principles. We have to, on one hand, carefully guard our guiding principles, yet at the same time facilitate as much flexibility for experimentation, new ideas, multiple approaches, and more, but without ever compromising where we came from or what we are trying to do. I think this forum, and in particular, this topic, is a good place for expressing those points of view and perhaps even stretching a bit more what we want to do and where we want to go.

As for me, I am not so much a creator as I am an observer, tester, user, and promoter. I have been a software user since 1973 when I was a junior in high school. I have been a software professional since 1979 when I joined the permanent work force after completing my initial college education. I have been a UNIX system user since 1982 and a personal Linux user since 1995. I got a fast network in 1999 and I got extra hardware where I could regularly test Linux systems in 2001. It has been since about 2001 since I have been an every day Linux user. That is, I used a Linux system as the basis for storing the bulk of my electronic communication, information I wanted to keep, and work I wanted to do.

I have had mixed results in terms of being able to use Linux systems on the job. I have had a few freelance jobs writing about Linux and I have had a couple of positions where I provided product support for Linux solutions. My longest effort was in working on a project to migrate a large set of financial services applications from an expensive, proprietary UNIX server base to a commodity hardware Linux systems base. I worked in both Quality Assurance and Project Management roles in that long term project.

For me, job utopia would be some combination of dreaming and experimenting with new ways to make entire systems and infrastructure (like a Google or an Android environment) that is based on completely free software, brings new ideas and new technology to every day, real, practical use. I enjoy thinking about such things, evangelizing such things, testing, coordinating, and helping others to produce stuff that can, for some, be a hobby, but for others, can solve real, practical, effective problems to make computer and electronic systems not only toys (which is OK too), but also usable parts of the every day things that we do.

I run and test things like Puppy, somewhat as a hobby, but also as a personal and professional passion. I'd like to work on things in these areas as long as I have the energy to work and as long as it provides me both an interest and a source of employment to sustain a home. Who knows, maybe there are many more opportunities out there for a great number of people here to create something that's not only a personal hobby, but the source of a small business venture (or, think big) even a larger business venture. That's possible, one idea at a time, one experiment at a time, one project at a time... and the list goes on.

I don't know if anyone has a consulting business based on Puppy technology or not. I suspect that given the right circumstances, there are plenty of opportunities to do something with it. At the same time, I don't imagine that business ventures are the main focus of anything directly tied to what Barry or Puppy in general stand for. The thrust of my message here has simply been to touch on a number of areas - allowing diversity, yet sticking to core principles, and allowing ideas and efforts to flourish. Just think of where Linus Torvalds began. I don't believe he initially had any idea or intention of taking Linux where it has gone, and even today, he personally does just a very small part of that. But look at the total sum of the parts! Awesome! Look at the sum of the parts of all the diverse Puppy projects. Again, awesome! So I leave my thoughts with this: allowing as much diversity as possible while adhering firmly to core principles is a recipe for continued success of the Puppy project, and I wish each and every idea to be explored and evaluated. Not every idea works, but every idea is at least worth exploring and seeing where it goes.

My every wish for success to everyone involved in the Puppy community!

[wolf]

core principals? imo, there are clear direction issues, as well a problematic fundamentals that have been at play from the outset and have been ongoing,

puppy can as easily sink as did linspire,

i see pup as having a spectacular start, but by no means on a solid foundation,

whatever accomplishments you may have, problems not dealt with don't go away, they just get bigger and come along for the ride,

other than the founder and his efforts, all i have seen after or other than that is practically nothing of interest to me,

that i can already find and revel in elsewhere,

pup is at best, a fringe offering with ltd appeal based on a anarchy/chaos theme, that has run its course, and for some time now,

i don't see much to be excited about and at the same time, seeing ongoing stuff that turns me right off,

pup needs to adapt or will surely wither,

starting something is one thing, maintaining is another, easy come easy go

unless pup is able to excite a new crowd, it's already done

wasn't that long ago that dsl was consistently ahead of pup in the DW rankings,

then again, something unexpected can always spring up

[Johnywhy]

hi

i'm a johny come lately here, but here's my 2 cents:

stability and reliability. nothing's more important than stability and reliability.

all too often my puppy 5.2.8 (or other version) will break when i install or remove something. then i have to reinstall from scratch. maybe a particular app will work right, maybe not.

that's just weak. for an os that's been around as long as puppy, it should be more stable and reliable.

i believe this issue will relegate puppy to hobby-status forever, until it's addressed.

to achieve greater stability and reliability, devs need to find the SOURCES of INstability and UNreliability.

there are many sources:
--missing dependencies is probably just one. If puppy package manager is smart enough to tell me about missing dependencies, it should be smart enough to download and install them for me.
--maybe woof or some other component needs to have more built-in check and balances to assure compatibility.
--other?

cheers, and thanks to all devs for your work!